tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post4176680327645314155..comments2023-10-24T11:53:12.980-04:00Comments on Meadowsweet & Myrrh: Three Humans Walk into a Bar: Language, Labels & Naming SpiritAlihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-14447002292226990772009-09-21T18:56:54.936-04:002009-09-21T18:56:54.936-04:00Elizabeth, So glad you found your way here! :) It&...Elizabeth, So glad you found your way here! :) It's nice to know that I'm not alone in these contemplations and questions, and that others out there are reading along and pondering their own journeys, too. I don't think I would be so inspired to write if it wasn't for people like you pausing in their daily routines, taking the time to say hello and make a connection. :) And of course, if you enjoy reading, share the love and tell your friends. ;) It sounds like shameless self-promotion, I know, but I really do believe in "the more, the merrier," and the wonderful exchange of ideas that can happen in the blogosphere. :)Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-48329503115547841002009-09-21T10:47:35.022-04:002009-09-21T10:47:35.022-04:00Thank you, Ali, for this blog! I just found it to...Thank you, Ali, for this blog! I just found it today and am happy I did. For a long time, I've been perusing the blogosphere looking for bloggers that were interested in the same questions I am. Your blog is a real treasure trove, and doesn't just satisfy my longing to find bloggers with similar concerns, but really challenges my thinking on the topics of deity, spirituality and paganism. Thank you so much... I look forward to reading more.lizzardbethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08435367989153567353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-37387246157374211942009-09-19T21:12:51.685-04:002009-09-19T21:12:51.685-04:00Erin, I'm really glad the writing and comments...Erin, I'm really glad the writing and comments here have inspired you to contemplate your own ideas. :) And thanks for leaving your own comment--even if your thoughts are still in that amorphous shape, I truly believe it's always worthwhile to ponder these types of things and try to engage in an honest dialogue about them... if only so others don't feel like they're the only ones out there thinking and wondering. :)Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-44815637842049751422009-09-18T23:07:40.444-04:002009-09-18T23:07:40.444-04:00I loved reading this. And Raymond's clarifica...I loved reading this. And Raymond's clarifications.<br /><br />I can relate to so much of it - have attempted to articulate my own versions of these thoughts before - and now i'm thinking of them again, inspired by your post, but in that way I sometimes hold ideas before words start to cling to them so I can't add much - I simply wanted to 'tap into' the dialogue.<br /><br />Thank you.<br />Erin.Erinhttp://www.erinsings.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-4632759860205073692009-09-18T18:45:57.130-04:002009-09-18T18:45:57.130-04:00Jeff, Well, maybe I should talk about your "i...Jeff, Well, maybe I should talk about your "ideas" of polytheism, then? Seems to me that if you're talking about colors, "view" is a very good word for it, though. ;) And I might say your "experiences" of polytheism, but then that sounds a bit like I'm aspiring to have <i>your</i> experiences, when really I'm working to cultivate my own.<br /><br />Regardless, your views of polytheism (for interest, taking at face value a god's self-identifying itself as such in meditation, or the importance of believing gods are not merely archetypes or the subconscious) are not something I necessarily share--and I won't know for sure if I share these views or not until I have experiences of my own and must choose how to engage and respond.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-80212492596212473122009-09-18T18:39:55.113-04:002009-09-18T18:39:55.113-04:00Amethyst, What's really funny is that only a d...Amethyst, What's really funny is that only a day or so after I wrote this, I had a rather strange experience myself that involve Cernunnos. During meditation in the park one evening, suddenly it was as though he was quite literally sitting beside me--so literal, in fact, that for a moment I thought the other person I was with had gotten up and moved. It's certainly the first time I've felt any kind of "presence" in association with Celtic deities... but it wasn't an experience of power or awe or anything that I might connect with godness... or at least, not exactly.<br /><br />So I'm still pondering and meditating. I totally agree that direct experiences of divinity completely overwhelm our usual rationalities and carefully constructed theories... it's happened to me before, in fact, though only with the monotheistic God. On the other hand, once we have these experiences, I think it's fruitful--both for ourselves and for others--to try to <i>understand</i> what such experiences mean and what they say about the world, and to try to communicate our new understanding so that it doesn't remain "just in our hearts."Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-27830733830267230022009-09-18T12:35:14.641-04:002009-09-18T12:35:14.641-04:00Ali, -- like Ray, I've succumbed to the tempta...Ali, -- like Ray, I've succumbed to the temptation to comment. :-) We've talked a lot about this offline, and I'm planning my own post on this topic, but I wanted to say a couple of things here... <br /><br />It sounds kind of strange to hear you talk about my "views" on polytheism, since my opinions are based so much on personal experience rather than theory. It's like talking about my "views" on the difference between red and green. :-) And this leaves me at a disadvantage when I'm trying to explain my "views" to others; unless they can "see the colors" too, there's no common experience to build on. I wish the gods would just talk to everyone, everywhere, but they don't seem to force themselves on folks much. Still (in my experience anyway), they always come if you pester them long enough, so I'm 100% positive you're going to contact one eventually. (Listen to me talking like I'm some goddam guru! How do you put up with me?!)<br /><br />It's interesting, what you say about believing in the ecology of spirit, but not knowing how the gods fit in to that. It seems to me that the difference between a fairy and a god is one of degree rather than kind; I don't know what their respective roles are in the spiritual ecology, but they both participate in it. (Notice I'm carefully using a small-g "god", I'm not talking about the big-G "God". I feel like big-G God doesn't participate in the spiritual ecology; big-G God might *be* the spiritual ecology...)<br /><br />I really liked what you had to say about word meaning, too. Word meaning is something that really fascinates me, because it's an area where self, mind, and society come together in a very small slice of experience. I do think it's important to cultivate the ability to set words aside and let the experience simply be what it is, without trying to put it in a <a href="http://druidjournal.net/2007/09/01/hearing-the-song-of-the-world/" rel="nofollow">little box</a>. At the same time, words are essential to our very humanity; it's our nature to create models of experience and play with them in language or mathematics. I think living in that tension between language and the world-as-it-is is our doom -- and our gift. :-)Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16358942133639236705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-1538846093316987622009-09-17T20:56:53.232-04:002009-09-17T20:56:53.232-04:00Have to say that a few months ago I came face to f...Have to say that a few months ago I came face to face, very unexpectedly I might reinforce, with Cernunos. It surprised me so much that I just burst into tears, utterly overwhelmed by his strength, beauty and awe inspiring peacefulness. <br />I mention this because whilst my head has been considering deity for many years and I have thus intellectualised deity, this was the first time I had actually come face to face with it/him. The power of my heart in terms of contemplating deity now overides the common sense of my thoughts regarding deity. So amazing!<br />Smiles,<br />Amethyst<br />www.oakandmistletoe.com.auAmethysthttp://www.oakandmistletoe.com.aunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-35582285760588321372009-09-16T20:59:20.448-04:002009-09-16T20:59:20.448-04:00Yewtree, I'm glad I'm not alone in this un...Yewtree, I'm glad I'm not alone in this uncertainty, anyway. Sometimes I wonder if others are trying to puff up their experiences of polytheistic deities (or just never had a powerful connection with monotheism and so don't have much to compare it to), and other times I'm convinced that I'm just tone-deaf when it comes to the gods. ;) But either way, I figure the best I can do and how I can help contribute meaningfully to the conversation is to be honest and try to share as openly and genuinely as possible. I don't know where it'll get me years from now, but I'm optimistic. :)Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-27756423711411272792009-09-16T20:56:23.631-04:002009-09-16T20:56:23.631-04:00Cat, Thank you. :) As always, your praise means a ...Cat, Thank you. :) As always, your praise means a whole helluva lot to me, since your writing speaks powerfully to me as well. I was actually just joking with Jeff about how this is at least the second or third time that something you wrote in your blog was the final shove that pushed me to go and write a "post I've been meaning to get to but haven't found the time or motivation yet." Since so much of my own self-knowledge and growth on this path has come from writing, this makes your blog a really influential source of inspiration for me, since it so often provokes me into writing myself. :) So thank you doubly!Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-90477248208127614692009-09-16T20:51:36.164-04:002009-09-16T20:51:36.164-04:00Finn,
Thanks for visiting! It's rather serend...Finn,<br /><br />Thanks for visiting! It's rather serendipitous that you would leave a comment just now--I hopped on over to your site and found a lot there that seems particularly relevant to some of my interests lately. Now you and a few of the blogs you link to are in my feed reader. :) I really look forward to reading you, and I hope you continue to visit and read here, as well, as I'm sure you (like all my readers ;) have lots of wonderful insight and experiences to share!Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-46925591713352425842009-09-16T04:33:35.592-04:002009-09-16T04:33:35.592-04:00Yes, this is an excellent post, and articulates so...Yes, this is an excellent post, and articulates some of what's been happening for me on the deities vs deity front (though I too have gone from the many to the one, like Cat, and am currently calling myself a polymorphist, with the view that the Divine has one substance and many forms). Thanks!Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-2043622580776657282009-09-15T20:18:19.993-04:002009-09-15T20:18:19.993-04:00I need to read and re-read and re-re-read this pos...I need to read and re-read and re-re-read this post, Ali... but I already know I love it. <br /><br />Do I always love your posts? Feels like it. But this one I love more than usual. And if I were ever to compile a book on the best of the Pagan blogosphere, I would absolutely want this post in it. Because this is the kind of conversation we need to be having with one another--over beer, or mead, or Woodchucks, or even over a slushy from a 7-11.<br /><br />And it's also kickass writing. "he was the broken-hearted god I met in dream: sitting quietly in an empty corner sipping his beer and watching the careless violence of love and connection bloom and shred to dust under dancing feet..."?<br /><br />You rock!Cat C-B (and/or Peter B)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10002916434676859262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-72404468938489917062009-09-15T14:51:22.046-04:002009-09-15T14:51:22.046-04:00I'll leave all the good blogging to folks like...I'll leave all the good blogging to folks like yourself, that way I won't bring down the quality of the blogging world with my silly comments about life. Good post though...Deliddle would be proud.Raymondnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-18930824935006894032009-09-15T14:32:38.760-04:002009-09-15T14:32:38.760-04:00Hi Ali,
Just wanted to say thanks for a beautiful...Hi Ali,<br /><br />Just wanted to say thanks for a beautiful post. I'm new here, but reading through some of your old posts are really helping me feel at home. Great food for thought for my own poetic journey.<br /><br />Best,<br />FinnFinnhttp://seanchasfior.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-26140216779379874292009-09-15T12:59:13.579-04:002009-09-15T12:59:13.579-04:00Thanks for giving in to the urge to comment, Raymo...Thanks for giving in to the urge to comment, Raymond. :) I knew full well that I couldn't really capture your side of the discussion, and since you don't have a convenient blog post I can link to (<i>ahem</i>), I was at a loss. But now people can get a taste of your perspective. Good, good. :)<br /><br />By the way, when <i>will</i> you be getting around to starting up a blog? ;)Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-25872342108646016582009-09-15T12:40:34.824-04:002009-09-15T12:40:34.824-04:00I feel like a mother her daughter's wedding, &...I feel like a mother her daughter's wedding, "I told myself I wasn't going to cry," except before reading through the above post I said, "I told myself I wasn't going to comment." But who can resist? I just wanted to make sure I clarify that I in no way object to the use of certain words, only because as you mention, the words have only as much power as we can give them (for the most part). My concern is that far too many people throw around terms like "God" and "gods" assuming an implied connection with those terms, almost a forced connection out of respect for the tradition of the term itself. So usually, when somebody talks to me about "God," "gods," "holy experiences," etc., I get a bit agitated because I feel like the person using those words with me does not even have a good grasp of their own experience simply because they have relied on other people's language, other people's interpretations of the world before allowing themselves privilege of interpretation/experience. <br /><br />I always think back to the scene in the movie Lost in Translation, where the woman visits a temple and watches the monks for a bit. Later on she starts crying to her friend about how she saw all this and didn't feel anything. This pretty much sums up my experience with others relating their own experiences to me, not because their experiences were lacking substance, but because it seems that the way in which they connected with those experiences, during and afterwards with language, were, in a sense, shallow. Now who am I to say such a thing? Well, nobody really, but that's just how I feel. I think there is a deep connection with the language that we use and the depth of the experience, both during and afterwards. In that way, each experience, while being concentrated in a moment, has the ability to grow after that moment through language, providing us deeper insight and newer experiences and so on and so forth. But far too often, people don't dig deeply enough, they just scratch at the surface or stop when they hit a rock or whatever. And so, I think that language, or at least how we have habitualized our use of language, can keep us from digging and digging because we already pre-associate depth with a word or term before understanding where that depth stems from. <br /><br />So in the end, I only "object" when I feel that the words people throw around lack substance and depth, genuine depth. And perhaps it is just my self-centered opinion, but I feel like I have a good sense of being able to feel out or smell depth in what a person has to say, in who a person is. And my agitation simply stems from the refusal of most people to spend a little time away from traditions and away from accepted forms of thought, and just play a little bit on ones own with ideas, words, experience, without the intrusion of a given set of ideas or system of beliefs. <br /><br />And for the record of records I am not an agnostic.Raymondnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-48732919212813257262009-09-15T00:38:39.908-04:002009-09-15T00:38:39.908-04:00All I can come up with to say is that I'm happ...All I can come up with to say is that I'm happy you have others you can talk to about it - truly happy for you.Pomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12294207351440999597noreply@blogger.com