tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post1232728172169384127..comments2023-10-24T11:53:12.980-04:00Comments on Meadowsweet & Myrrh: Cultivating an Environment of TruthAlihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-1487228447493454082009-08-30T20:09:40.115-04:002009-08-30T20:09:40.115-04:00Rose, thanks very much for reading. The reader com...Rose, thanks very much for reading. The reader comments for this post have been pretty awesome and thought-provoking for me as well. If you haven't already, I highly recommend going back and checking out Daniel's and my exchange in particular. He brings up some really good ideas. :)Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-40948659699446354752009-08-30T20:08:26.261-04:002009-08-30T20:08:26.261-04:00Magaly, Yep, I've been writing, though not as ...Magaly, Yep, I've been writing, though not as much as I'd like. :) It's odd that the feed wasn't updating... but I hope you have fun catching up on the reading! ;)Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-24763008158149575942009-08-30T18:24:51.967-04:002009-08-30T18:24:51.967-04:00As usual, a wonderful post full of insight, commen...As usual, a wonderful post full of insight, comments that make me think about my own life and some real-life example to illustrate your point. <br />Thank you for writing these posts. <br /><br />~Rose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-36005969922490263722009-08-30T02:10:09.873-04:002009-08-30T02:10:09.873-04:00Ali, here I was thinking that is really strange. S...Ali, here I was thinking that is really strange. She is not posting anymore, then I checked again and for some reason I've not been getting you feeds. Anyhow, I just fixed the little problem, I guess all what's left is to come back and catch up ;)<br /><br />Hope you are well.Magaly Guerrerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18295455026184103230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-40418388042054409282009-08-29T22:08:56.029-04:002009-08-29T22:08:56.029-04:00Lanternlight, as an afterthought/postscript:
Thin...Lanternlight, as an afterthought/postscript:<br /><br />Thinking back over your comment, I wanted to come back and clarify one other thing. Perhaps this man may have had experiences in his life which lead him to conservative views. That's certainly fine with me. I'm not even bothered so much by the one example of clear-cut misinformation that I mentioned (about Obama's and McCain's birthplaces), since misinformation these days is practically ubiquitous and a person can still act ethically and lovingly despite factual errors.<br /><br />On the other hand, I'm not sure what life experiences might lead a person to find the brutal beating of a fellow human being funny. That doesn't mean there aren't legitimate experiences that could give rise to such an attitude... but then, just because someone's life experiences lead them to hold certain attitudes doesn't automatically make those views healthy or ethically sound.<br /><br />It <i>is</i> important to understand others and where they are coming from, in order to better understand their views. But that does not mean we should excuse those views if we find them immoral or unjust. My commitment to understanding is not so that I can embrace all opinions and attitudes as equally valid, but so that I may seek the essential goodness in others, as well as the flaws in myself that they reflect back to me, so that together we can strive to become better, more loving human beings.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-72495975649655031482009-08-29T21:52:39.695-04:002009-08-29T21:52:39.695-04:00Lanternlight, O, I definitely agree that to shape ...Lanternlight, O, I definitely agree that to shape our world we must consciously and deliberately connect with others (I say consciously, because I believe that we are all already connected, and that this interconnection needs attending and expression more than anything else). I certainly <i>don't</i> despair when others don't see eye to eye with me, and in some circumstances (such as this blog! :) I revel in reaching out, asking questions, seeking alternative perspectives and ideas, etc.<br /><br />I think this piece is lop-sided precisely because most of us are living in a very lop-sided world much of the time. I can see this man four days a week (admittedly, for about ten minutes or so at a time, during which I'm engaged with other work), and yet I hardly know anything about him! Is that my fault? Is it his? I'm not so interested in placing blame. After all, this piece isn't really about him--it's about me, and how I struggle to integrate my ideals with my sense of respect and kindness towards others, how I ask myself, again and again, what the "right" thing to do is, and sometimes easy answers are not forthcoming.<br /><br />You can imagine how hearing this man speak casually, even humorously about horrific acts of violence and brutality against people who share my views doesn't encourage me to open up or engage him in conversation... On the other hand, I do not withdraw or bitch beyond his back like most of my coworkers. I continue to engage with him in the ways open to me, ways that circumvent direct confrontation that would probably quickly get him to put up walls or if not would at least, I think, demand that I harden my own armor. Is this the best way to go about things? I don't know. I don't know if there is a "best" way, or if there's only whatever way allows us to connect best with others in love and kindness, even if those must sometimes be nonverbal and slipping under the radar of ideology...Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-70180395228018226752009-08-29T20:58:45.533-04:002009-08-29T20:58:45.533-04:00This is well-written, but it feels a little one-si...This is well-written, but it feels a little one-sided, you know? You speak eloquently of your life, your experiences, but you don't tell us much more about him than a couple stray comments and a personality quirk. <br /><br /> His real views remain absent, elaborated, at least as this piece goes, strictly by your own inferences.<br /><br />I think before you make big claims to truth, you need to talk a lot more about who he is with him, hear about his life, the way truth has shaped it. What life experiences does he have that make him feel passionately?<br /><br />It seems to me that if there is ever real change in the world, it happens because we reach out to each other and try to grasp the truth in the other person and not just despair that they don't see the truth in us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-27010071390884567512009-08-29T19:24:47.272-04:002009-08-29T19:24:47.272-04:00Daniel,
I totally understand where you're com...Daniel,<br /><br />I totally understand where you're coming from! It's incredibly difficult to trust that others will be receptive, especially in the face of so much evidence that seems to suggest just the opposite.<br /><br />The way I think of it, utilitarianism can only take you so far. If you're only ever worried about how great an effect you will have, or how best to influence others, than you might end up spending your whole life treating each moment as a means to some further end, instead of appreciating the present moment as an end in itself, with its own value and inherent beauty and worth.<br /><br />So I ask myself: what is it that I really want of others? Do I want them to agree with my views and do what I do because I've managed to convince them? What I really want is not to be surrounded by a bunch of automatons who just happen to be doing the right thing because I made a more convincing argument than somebody else--automatons are still automatons. What I really want, when I stop and think about it, is to be surrounded by people who are also striving and finding creative ways to realize and express goodness and beauty.<br /><br />But I can't force people to act freely and creatively. That's the paradox. All I can do is <i>invite</i> them, and maybe inspire them a little. And sometimes, that feels like such a small thing, and so easily ignored or overlooked. Still, that doesn't mean I'm off the hook. I know full well that trying to control people won't accomplish what I really want, so I have to accept that. I don't always have a very optimistic view of people, either--sometimes, the whole human race seems plagued with blindness and stupidity and I would love to just slink off into the woods to live by myself with the sky and the trees. But even when I'm in one of those cynical moods, I try to hold myself to the ethic of love and kindness and creativity I've chosen. Not always because I think it really makes a difference; sometimes just because that is the kind of person I want to be, the kind of person I choose to be.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-56100309027679019592009-08-29T19:06:01.849-04:002009-08-29T19:06:01.849-04:00Cat, and Beth, thank you both very much. :)Cat, and Beth, thank you both very much. :)Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-10319893238427547012009-08-29T18:10:32.551-04:002009-08-29T18:10:32.551-04:00I do like the idea of "teahouse practice,&quo...I do like the idea of "teahouse practice," and I think it's a piece that I've been missing. In fact, I tripped and fell facefirst onto it today: after having to work the weekend, I took 30 minutes to hit a local park and meditate under a tree a bit before I lost my mind. I came home for lunch with my fiancee afterwards, and she went from agitated to comfortably quiet within about five minutes. She seemed more content than usual to not have a conversation and just sit eating and being with each other. (And, most importantly, she didn't know beforehand I came in from meditating.)<br /><br />The problem I always have with it, though, is the same as before: How receptive can people be? It's one thing to have it happen with Jen, since we live together and are (symbolically anyway) becoming one person. I guess I need to have more faith in people being complex growing creatures instead of closed-off caricatures, but it's really hard amidst all the inane shouting that passes for public debate these days.<br /><br />Anyhoo, thanks for your reply!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17232760960869878396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-10299014152918182632009-08-29T08:52:42.712-04:002009-08-29T08:52:42.712-04:00Stunned with your beauty. Thank you for this.Stunned with your beauty. Thank you for this.Beth Owls Daughterhttp://owlsdaughter.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-32189569582494059982009-08-28T19:21:08.745-04:002009-08-28T19:21:08.745-04:00Oh, dammit Ali, you've made me cry again.
Thi...Oh, dammit Ali, you've made me cry again.<br /><br />This is wonderful. Thank you for writing, and thank you for carrying your compassion as well as your ideal through the world.<br /><br />Blessings.Cat C-B (and/or Peter B)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10002916434676859262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-85457069981916669762009-08-28T16:19:54.472-04:002009-08-28T16:19:54.472-04:00David,
Thanks for the link! I hopped on over to c...David,<br /><br />Thanks for the link! I hopped on over to check out the post, and do remember reading it, I think, but only vaguely. I certainly agree with what Massey says, about seeking a spiritual center transcendent (or perhaps integrative?) of Left and Right. I would add, in fact, that political life itself is not actually so dualist and that this dichotomy has been rather over-emphasized in this country, not least because of our two-party system. It often seems like the competition between Pepsi and Coke; the two major parties of our current system hold so many common assumptions that their differences are, in the scheme of things, quite minor, and yet people are willing to riot and rage over them, condemning neighbors and even rejecting family members if they disagree.<br /><br />Though Pittsburgh as a city is quite liberal, my particular neighborhood tends towards the conservative side, and it's so interesting to listen to casual comments from customers and coworkers alike regarding politics. One of the first things I noticed was that I could hardly ever guess someone's political views based on obvious demographics (like age, sex, race, class, etc.) or even based on aspects of their social and personal lives. The truth that "we're all people, and we all share a common human condition" may sound obvious, but it has a powerful, visceral impact when you see it played out before your eyes on a daily basis.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-44019783739125492852009-08-28T16:03:42.903-04:002009-08-28T16:03:42.903-04:00Daniel, I feel like, in my line of work (waiting t...Daniel, I feel like, in my line of work (waiting tables--if that's really a "line of work" ;), I find myself in situations like that all the time. I've written once or twice about it in here before, about how to respond to a coworker shrugging off global warming as government hype, or what role my strong pacifist views play when I'm waiting on soldiers who come in decked out in full military uniform... With coworkers it's a little easier to engage in direct confrontation, but somehow I feel as though with customers it's different. There is an integrity to the role of waitress, a kind of gestalt that incorporates some qualities and not others. Somehow, I feel as though lecturing customers, or even kindly confronting them about certain things I disagree with, would violate the <i>aesthetics</i> of job. I don't know if that makes any sense.... I know that, afterwards I often wish I could have found a way to say something, but when I'm in the moment it seems like keeping silent is the appropriate thing to do.<br /><br />Maybe "simply living" isn't the best way, but I think that living simply is a step in the right direction. I was thinking about this today again when reading the paper, about local gun control laws being enforced because of the G-20 and the likely protests, and the NRA objecting to things that seem harmless (like requiring gun-owners to report lost or stolen weapons) on the grounds that any regulation whatsoever is automatically oppressive. Sometimes we live our political lives in a realm of extreme abstraction, amidst talk of "slippery slope"s and exaggerated "what if"s, and we forget some things that are really quite obvious. Political debate definitely has its place and is incredibly important, but living a life of simplicity and immediacy, where we engage in the present moment with those sharing our landscape and local community, can help keep us grounded in the real, concrete consequences of abstract theory. In my role as a writer, I can wander off into abstract contemplation with ease and often good results, but my role as a waitress benefits from me being fully present in the immediate moment and working to meet the basic needs of my customers, like nourishment and friendly company.<br /><br />In Buddhism, there is a concept called "teahouse practice," that I've always found very relevant. It's the idea that, by trying to embody the dharma (or whatever teaching of truth and spiritual loving-kindness you might follow), you can pass that teaching on to others directly through your interactions with them, without ever having to preach a word. I don't know if it works, but I want to believe it does.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-62076816387846632842009-08-28T15:49:51.987-04:002009-08-28T15:49:51.987-04:00Jeff, Thank you, as well. You're making me blu...Jeff, Thank you, as well. You're making me blush. ;)<br /><br />But yes, I do often wonder about "how I got to be this way" and what it was that convinced me of basic goodness, not just in people but in the world as well. Every time I try to answer that question, what I come up with is that, well, I listened and watched closely, and goodness was there to be discovered. Throughout my childhood, it was my accidental obsession with poetry (which started, really, with me just wanting to be really good at something my first grade teacher once told me I had a knack for) that led me to quietly observe the world in all its strange and particular details. Try as I might, even during my darkest hours when I've felt on the verge of desperation and despair, goodness seems to reassert itself before me, in the simple act of people and animals and plants and weather--and earth, and sea, and sky--being who and what they truly are. Even when those things dwarf me and my needs and desires, making me feel tiny, even when they seem utterly indifferent and even a bit callous towards me, there is something beautiful in this genuineness and essence shining through. This, to me, seems good. I don't know why--it just... is that way. Maybe because it reminds me of everything I don't know and don't understand, of how big the world really is, and that gives me hope that my cynicism or frustration or impotence isn't the final word, after all.Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-40578098048162817072009-08-28T15:41:35.010-04:002009-08-28T15:41:35.010-04:00Thanks, Pom. :)Thanks, Pom. :)Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738190874181111086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-47655612099128515552009-08-28T10:33:44.498-04:002009-08-28T10:33:44.498-04:00My mother lives north of Pittsburgh. In her eight...My mother lives north of Pittsburgh. In her eighties, she would be in assisted living except for her amazing safety net of neighbors - half of whom listen to Rush Limbaugh. <br />So, I do believe in that essential strand of goodness that is rooted in Spirit, even as we on the Left and others on the Right can violently disagree. I think of Marshall Massey's response to Cat on the Two Powers. http://quakerpagan.blogspot.com/2008/04/marshall-massey-on-borg-and-bible.html While his language is very different, it reaches toward that central spiritual core.<br /><br />DavidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-83227059317919679812009-08-28T09:42:16.855-04:002009-08-28T09:42:16.855-04:00Cultivating truth requires receptive soil. It'...Cultivating truth requires receptive soil. It's not having a different opinion that causes the problem (and I'm pretty confident you're not suggesting that!), so much as inability to consider---not accept, just consider---alternative viewpoints.<br /><br />I'm never sure what to do in situations like this. I honestly don't think "simply living" works (at least, towards that particular goal), but the harder you try to get them to open up, the harder and more viciously they fight.<br /><br />I fear it's going to take something really catastrophic to make people self-aware again. I'm generally pessimistic about human society, though.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17232760960869878396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-33749817181525054702009-08-27T20:41:23.018-04:002009-08-27T20:41:23.018-04:00Pom: me too. :-)
Ali, I love this post more tha...Pom: me too. :-)<br /><br />Ali, I love this post more than I can say with words. I was thinking about what you said earlier today -- about how the basic 'problem' your customer has, here, is that he doesn't trust enough in the basic goodness of people; and all you can do to convince him to do otherwise is to be, yourself, a Good Person. I agree that people are basically good, and I am wondering now why we think so -- why you and I and many others share this faith in the goodness of all humanity, and many other people do not. It's certainly not because we've had easy lives or always been surrounded by loving people...Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16358942133639236705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1883567827950405204.post-90152963455879231902009-08-27T16:48:25.473-04:002009-08-27T16:48:25.473-04:00When I grow up I hope I can be more like you.When I grow up I hope I can be more like you.Pomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12294207351440999597noreply@blogger.com